Monday, January 29, 2007

MATH, WPBT, Neteller, Reloads, 24 and the 30k Guaranteed

Wow, I have got a ton to talk about today. So much in fact, that I might need to spread it over a few posts. I can write a long one, don't get me wrong, but I'm just not the master of the uberpost like a certain dwarf we all know and love. So I'm going to get started right quick here and we'll see how far it gets today.

First things first. Tonight is your regularly scheduled Mondays at the Hoy tournament:



Yes, you will see that we are still on pokerstars. Much of my furor over that incident in the big buyin Wednesday night tournament a few weeks back has subsided, and I have continued to have a fair amount of success in cash games and mtt's on pokerstars, so for now we will continue to meet there for our weekly donkings. I still have some fun plans in the works for future tournaments, which I will set up and announce right here if I ever get around to running them, but for now the weekly Hoy remains on pokerstars and will go off as usual tonight. As a reminder, here is the 2007 money leaderboard:

1. VinNay $310
2. Hoyazo $200
3. Fuel55 $200
4. Zeem $120
5. Ganton516 $114
6. PhinCity $80
7. jeciimd $80
8. Manik79 $76

So come on out tonight and start the new week of right, with all your fake internet friends and bloggers donking it up on pokerstars.

Speaking of bloggers donking it up, last night was the return of the WPBT tournament series, as I mentioned here last week. A huge 61 players showed up to kick off the new year's WPBT tournament circuit, and yours truly managed to be the Gigli for the event, donking out in 5 hands after what I can only describe as a sick, sad and sorry series of shitty beats and horrible rivers. Let's see....It all started off when my boy Papi Justify stuck around to the river and then managed to hit his 2-outer 6, to match the two sixes he had in the pocket, and to steal a large pot that I had been well ahead on from the flop on. Now Papi has been a loyal reader for quite a while, and I couldn't have picked a nicer guy to river-steal half my stack on the third hand of the tournament, so I'm not going to rant and rave here like I think this play is fully deserving of. So Papi, let's just say that you know what you did there, and leave it at that. So that was half my stack, three hands in.

The very next hand, Fuel55 tried his absolute damnedest to lose with his pocket Kings, not only slow-playing them preflop, but then slow-playing them on every single street as well, waiting, begging, pleading for an Ace to fall so he could barch about losing. Instead, in another river treat for me, a Queen fell to nail the top pair on the board with my AQo in my hand, and Fuel managed to slow-raise me for about 3/4 of my already shortened remaining stack, which I obviously had to call given the action to that point in the hand. Four hands, two opponents doing everything they could to lose a lot of chips, and two river horrors to get me from the 3000 chip starting stacks to under 500 within 5 minutes. And then just to complete the trifecta, precisely two hands later, Irongirl took her pocket Tens and knocked out my AKo, and my WPBT night ended mercifully early. The whole thing sucked just about the biggest one I could imagine for me at the WPBT last night, but at least I was pleased to see that Papi busted out (even with all of my chips to give him the very early chip lead) I think three players later -- I can't say I'm surprised if you're going to make calls like he did against me there -- and I chatted with Fuel later and heard that he got horribly rivered out early from the WPBT tournament as well. I wasn't quite as pleased to see that, because Fuel hadn't made an inexplicable call so much as just a highly questionable and not advisable slow-play attempt that just got laughably and luckily rewarded at the river. But I don't want anyone who gets lucky on the river against me early on in a significant blogger tournament to go on to do jack shit with my chips. So I was glad to see that. I believe rspr went on to win the event, which you should be able to read all about soon at Columbo's blog.

Oh yeah, my boy jeciimd finally got off his ass and started up a poker blog in connection with the 2007 WPBT season, so at least one good thing came out of yesterday's tournament from my perspective. Now, it still remains to be seen how much updating really goes on over there, but just starting the thing up is the first step, and the first post was really funny I have to say. So hopefully there will be more fun to come in that ghey little space of the ghey little blogosphere.

I imagine many or most of you have heard the news by now, but Neteller late last week announced that they are not currently giving any U.S. players any cashouts of their Neteller balances. This after just a few days ago retaining the party line that one could order a Neteller Gold card, and make withdrawals via that card in $1000 increments daily, each for only a $2 charge. Now, no new Neteller cards are being issued, and no cashouts are being honored currently by the former world's #1 e-payment processor for online gambling accounts. This to me is real trouble. I wrote an article about this over at Cardsquad over the weekend, which I encourage you to read if you have any interest at all, but basically let me just reproduce here three FAQ's and answers from Neteller's newly-updated "Notice to U.S. Players", which I believe tell the whole story as far as I'm concerned:

"How can I withdraw funds from my NETELLER account?

At this time, our ability to provide US members with withdrawals is significantly reduced. As a top priority, we are working to resolve all withdrawal issues, but in the meantime we continue to maintain these funds in trust on your behalf. Please check this page regularly for more updates.

Why can't I use my Gold NETELLER Card anymore?

The Gold NETELLER Card is not available as a withdrawal option at this time.

We are doing our best to restore our withdrawal options but don't know how long this will take. In the meantime your funds are safely maintained in trust accounts. We will communicate any updates as soon as possible.

Why can't I get a Gold NETELLER Card anymore?

We are temporarily not issuing Gold NETELLER Cards. The Gold NETELLER Card is not available as a withdrawal option at this time."


What kills me about this business with Neteller is #1 how they keep changing the cashout situation, and keep changing it for the worse, almost on a weekly basis lately since the arrest of their co-founders a few weeks back. And #2, how the company continues to insist that they will make all cashout payments eventually, and how all customer funds are kept in separate trust accounts.

Let me tell you all a little bit about trust accounts. It's really a lot more simple than Neteller, and many people who refuse to believe they're in the early stages of a Pokerspot-like screwjob from Neteller, would have you believe: If Neteller really had everyone's funds in separate trust accounts, then we would all be permitted to withdraw our own money at our discretion here. But we're not. Neteller isn't allowing anybody to withdraw any funds in the U.S., period. They won't even make any commitment whatsoever as to when they expect these funds to be paid. They won't say within 2 weeks, they won't say within 2 months, nothing. They won't say at all. Factually speaking, this is not how a company acts who has all of their customers' funds in separate trust accounts. I've heard some people argue it's a liquidity issue, and that Neteller clearly has the money but they just need to sell some securities and then they can make all the cashout payments. Guys, this isn't how a company in that situation would act. They would have already sold a large number of their financial instruments in the two or three weeks since the shit hit the fan, and they would be paying a large number of their U.S. clients, or maybe paying all of them some of the money they owe us. I don't know what to tell you if you don't recognize this for what it is, but to me it is clear that Neteller does not have everyone's money right now that they claim they keep in separate trust accounts for us all. Plain and simple. It's the only thing that actually explains what they've done here, and the constant backpedalling, and the redickulous lack of any time commitment from them as to when any cashouts will occur.

Let me say it this way, to all you guys who, like me, are owed some money by Neteller: Before last week's latest update, I was already telling people I figured there was a 20-25% chance that I would never see the funds that Neteller owes me. I had ordered a Neteller card last week already, and they said I would have it within 21 days and that I would then be able to withdraw $1000 a day with the card from any ATM machine, but with the massive departure of thousands (millions?) of customers and surely millions and millions of dollars from the Neteller system since they backed out of the U.S. market, I already had serious doubts as to the ongoing existence of the company, at least in the form we have known it up until now. But now that suddenly no more Neteller cards are being issued (presumably including mine), and now that suddenly absolutely no cashouts of any kind are being processed for U.S. customers, in my own head I am raising the likelihood that I never see my money to somewhere over 50%. If you believe differently, so be it, and of course you may be right, and believe me I hope you are. But in my head, this money is now gone. If I ever get anything back from Neteller, I will treat it as found money and that's it. Because right now, I freely admit that I am not expecting to ever see this money, not if Neteller right now can't commit to any time period in which they will pay this back. There are some good comments over at the Cardsquad article, so maybe check it out if this interests you.

Two other quick things -- and I guess this is turning into quite a long Iggified post after all -- but first I just wanted to give a shout-out here to somewhat new blogger Don Morris, for pointing me to the link that eventually showed me one way that we all can reload our pokerstars and full tilt accounts. And it works. Basically the secret is the Gift2Go prepaid Visa card, which is sold at Walgreen's stores across the country. You just need to buy one for at least a $50 denomination (since the minimum deposit at these sites from Visa if $50) -- it basically costs a few bucks to purchase but that's it -- and then you simply deposit at one of these sites using your card as a regular "Visa" deposit. Again I got the idea from Don's blog -- actually it was linked from Waffles' blog so I guess I owe both of these guys my gratitude -- and it basically all stems from a 2+2 link and a corresponding Pocket 5s link, so go check it out if you want to read more. Apparently there are other cards that work as well -- but not all of them so make sure you do your homework at these sites before you buy any of these things for online poker deposits -- but I can personally attest that Gift2Go Visa cards work on both pokerstars and fulltilt, because I personally deposited with such cards on both sites this very weekend. And again make sure the cards you buy are of at least a $50 denomination or they won't be useable for a deposit into either stars or full tilt. But otherwise these things do work, and as long as there is a Walgreen's not too far from you, this is a prefectly viable option to get some money onto the sites right now, so you can keep playing your blogger tournaments, getting your nightly Omaha fix, whatever your poison is, the Gift2Go prepaid Visa card is the shizzy. If anyone has found any other cards or deposit methods that work, please post them in the comments here. Otherwise I have purposely kinda buried this very important fact down here in my post, as I don't want to call any more attention to this than necessary, but these particular cards absolutely do work, and I have the personal knowledge and experience to vouch for their effectiveness, at least as of today.

The last thing, which normally on a regular Monday would be worthy of an entire longass post of its own, but today is relegated to just this statement and the one final leaderboard screenshot -- is last night, after satelliting my way into the nightly 30k guaranteed tournament on full tilt for the 11th or 12th time now this month through that juicy $14 turbo sat every night at 8:45pm ET, I managed to lift the balance in my full tilt account nicely with a 7th place finish out of I think 312 players total in the event:



This was good for a little under a grand in total, and it's a shame because I just missed the really big payouts which jumped over $1200 starting with spot #6, but believe me when I say I am thrilled about my performance in this thing overall. With these satellites I've been writing about, getting into the 30k has not been very difficult at all, and for a $109 buyin tournament, I have probably played in it 12 times this month, for a grand total of maybe around $250 in satellite buyin fees, so I've already made some nice coinage just from this 30k in January with this cash and another smaller cash earlier in the month. But at least I won't need to be running back out to the Walgreen's on 23rd and Park again anytime soon (for all you New Yorkers, I was there this weekend and that particular store seemed to have a nice amount of $100 Gift2Go cards). Now, if mother effing Neteller would just give me back my fucking money from that safe and segregated little "trust" account, I would be all good.

Oh yeah, one last quick thing -- Hammer Wife and I started watching 24 this weekend after having the first season on DVD sitting on our shelf for about 18 months just gathering dust. So far we've watched the first five episodes of the first season, and it's very entertaining. A little over the top for my tastes, but very enjoyable and well-executed. So no spoilers, but as with my wife and my run through Lost a few months ago, I will probably be spending more time watching 24 and less playing poker in the early evenings over the coming weeks, as I have a feeling Hammer Wife and I will be getting pretty into this show before all is said and done.

OK I'm outtie and I'm going to post this now to get it up there for you all to read. Definitely come and play the Hoy tonight if you can, as we look to round out the top 10 list of 2007 cashers in this weekly Monday night tournament on pokerstars. Password is "hammer" as always. See you tonight at Mondays at the Hoy, and go get those Gift2Go cards!

21 Comments:

Blogger StB said...

Being the lazy ass I am, I figured I would wait until the furor died down with Neteller before I withdrew. Now I guess I have no choice. Only good thing is it is winnings, but still would like to be able to get it out.

11:00 PM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Yeah stb I'm in the exact same boat, in that the only reason I had any real money in Neteller is that I won that weekly HORSE 30k for close to 5 grand on January 1. So yeah, my neteller balance is all winnings right now, which is the only thing keeping me from being absolutely insane at this point. I cannot imagine having money I need, or just generally having an amount that constitutes a lot of money, in there and being told I can't get it out and that they have no clue when I will be able to. Disgusting man.

11:07 PM  
Blogger manik79 said...

Man, that sucks for you guys, Can u transfer the money to someone like myself who can withdrawl it, then wire it you? or something like that?

Good job on the 30k...
Maybe see ya tonyte at 10; however I say u move the HOY to FT though so I can talk shit.

12:27 AM  
Blogger Darren said...

Hehehe, you mean no spoilers for a show that aired 6 years ago? Oh well...

Congrats on the 30k cash.

Your analysis of NetTeller seems spot on. i.e. PokerSpot on.

12:47 AM  
Blogger Patch said...

Hoy, I don't mean to add insult to injury, but you seem to like to do unbiased, reasoned analysis of hands, so I'm going to give you my take on Papi's "donkery".

With blinds at 15/30, you open from EP for 3BB with A9o. Personally, I think this is rather questionable. A9o isn't much of a hand from EP. I don't know, maybe you were trying a semi-steal, figuring everyone else would be playing tight on the third hand. It folds to Papi on the button. He has a real hand, 66. Given the raise from EP, I'd prefer to hold something stronger, but he's got position for the rest of the hand and this is a deep stacks event and he can certainly afford to do a bit of prospecting, so I can't fault the call. The blinds both fold.

The flop comes K9K, rainbow. You bet the size of the pot. Given the way you normally play, you could have almost anything except a K here. Without knowing your cards I'd give Papi a better than even chance of being ahead. Can't fault his call.

The turn is a blank. This is where I think you made your big mistake. If you'd carried through with what you started earlier I think you might have pushed Papi off his hand. Instead, you check. Maybe you were going for a check-raise, maybe you were afraid Papi had a K. In either case, you gave him a free card.

The river, as you've already mentioned, brings his salvation. You bet the pot again and he min-raises you. This is a clear sign you're in big trouble. If he'd pushed, you could maybe think he was trying to get you off your hand, but a min-raise is pleading for you to call. And you do.

You let him beat you on this hand and then you paid him off. I've done it way too many times myself, that's why I recognize it so readily.

As to the Neteller situation, I read somewhere today that Neteller has lost their ability to do transfers to US bank accounts or write US$ checks because the service they were using has stopped dealing with them for fear of getting arrested like the Neteller ex-execs. This strikes me as totally plausible and it could certainly cause a significant delay in moving large amounts of money. It also would appear to be something that can be fixed given enough time to establish a business relationship with someone a bit less squeamish.

1:17 AM  
Blogger FishyMcDonk said...

Are US Neteller account holders totally frozen? Or can you transfer to another non-U.S. Neteller account?

1:28 AM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Patch, I think your analysis of the hand with Papi is pretty close to right on. The only part I really don't agree with is Papi's call on the flop. I bet the size of the pot, and when I had raised it up preflop, IMO Papi should have folded. I can understand someone thinking he should have called there, but I make money all night long off of people who call bets just like that with a poor pocket pair like the 6s there. You're not correct in saying that I would make that move with anything other than a King -- actually wrong on two counts since (1) I would not likely make that move with nothing in my hand, and (2) I would almost surely make the exact same potbet if I did hold a King, but I accept that people seem to have this impression of my play so he might have thought he's ahead.

But to be clear, my big complaint about the hand was not Papi's play, but rather the frucking river card that hit, which represented one of Papi's only two outs in the entire deck with just the one card to come. That is painful.

And it's always interesting and a little too easy when people look back with hindsight and say "well if only you hadn't checked there on the turn, you wouldn't have let him beat you." That may technically be an accurate statement with 20-20 hindsight, but of course in reality I had him drawing to one card with just two outs, and when I checked the turn, I cemented in Papi's head that his pocket 6s really were ahead (which they were not), thus setting up the river for me to win another nice-sized bet from him. I'm taking a chance of my opponent hitting a 2-outer at the river, and in exchange for that chance -- literally 5% or 19-to-1 against -- I'm going to win another 400 or 500 chips from him on the river in 95% of the cases. I like those odds. No, let me restate. I love those odds. I crave them. If I'm going to be too scared to play in such a way that makes the most money on my 95% chances to win with one card to come, then I shouldn't be playing poker for money in the first place, at least the way I see it.

So I don't think Papi should have called me on the flop there. I would have folded in his shoes, and I think to lay the onus for that beat on my turn check, rather than the literal 19-to-1 shot hitting on the river, seems silly to me. It was a 5% shot that hit at the river. That's my fault now for letting him stick around to hit the 5 percenter on the end? I just can't see it that way.

And yeah, you are 100% correct that I didn't have to call his minraise on the end, and believe me a part of me was expecting to see two pairs or something like that when I did. But here's the thing when you play the way that I do -- once I've laid the groundwork with my turn check to indicate that I am actually weak and not strong on that flop, when in reality I know I am quite strong, I am almost "forcing" myself in a way to make that call there. I don't need to call an allin raise from him on the river necessarily, but when I've gone out of my way to trick a guy into thinking I am weak, and then he makes a smallish bet or raise at me on the river, if you think about it I've gotten exactly what I'm looking for there, no? I got some money in on the flop, then I used the turn to deceive my opponent into thinking his crappy low pocket pair is maybe ahead after all, and then on the river he minraises me because he's pretty sure his crappy pocket pair does have him ahead. And I've got him right where I want him.

Bottom line, many players in this situation would minraise me there with just, say, pocket 5s or pocket 7s, simply because of my turn check. So IMO I can't then go and fold to the harmless-looking 6 on the river, the one that ended up being a 19-to-1 against shot to nail me at the end. So I like my play in the hand, I took control and got myself into a very profitable situation unless a 19-to-1 shot hits on the river, and then the 19-to-1 shot hit on the river. Like I said, I've got way way better things to do at the poker table than to always be worried about the 19-to-1 shots. So does everyone else, whether they realize it or not.

Btw as regards your comment about open-raising with A9o in EP, I accept that some people don't play that hand that way. I've got lots of hands I play differently from how others play them. It's certainly not a bad play to make, as long as you're willing to lay it down to another player who plays the hand like they have a higher Ace. For me then it's a very small downside combined with a possibly very high upside, like the 20-30% uptick in my stack I would have won if anything but the 19-to-1 shot had fallen on the river here. Papi can say he wouldn't have called a bet from me on the river, but the bet would have been of a size such that it would have been very tempting for him to call, giving the deception I practiced on the turn with my check. Bet-the-flop-and-check-the-turn has been a hugely profitable move for me over time when I actually do hit the flop. Any time you lose because of the check you could go back and say someone would have folded if I only hadn't checked the turn. But I don't think that makes these things bad plays. In contrast, they've been hugely profitable for me over the long run. Probably because the 19-to-1 shots only hit about 1 time in 19.

Btw I don't buy any of what you said about Neteller. I think they don't have the funds and I don't believe they would not be able to send our money to us if they had it. They could find a way. Now they can't even cut a check and mail it to someone in the U.S.? I don't understand how that could be. Lord knows I hope you're right. But I just don't like the direction that things seem to be moving in as far as the communications we're receiving from Neteller, and how the cashouts seem further and further away with each passing week. It just reminds me so much of Pokerspot and other scandals like it, I can't be comfortable with just assuming it will all be ok soon. Please let you be right about this one though.

Nice comment as always.

2:28 AM  
Blogger Goat said...

A deposit technique that actually works?

Zounds! That's some good news right there.

Guess that means I'm MATHing it tonight. See you there!

Glad to see you've calmed down about Stars, Hoy. But if you see that 78 sooted (or whatever) donkey again, stay away.

2:48 AM  
Blogger Raveen said...

congrads on the cash...and i personally think season 1 of 24 is my favorite with season 2 coming in a close second....

2:52 AM  
Blogger L'artiste said...

That’s crazy man, if you get raised on the river of a paired board; you have to know that one pair is a losing hand at that point.

Here’s my rationale for the hand. You raise from early position and I call from the button with a pair of 6’s. The stacks are big and I have a position. At best, I hit a 6 on the flop and hope to make some money at worst; I let the hand go on a scary board. Now I know you raise a lot of hands, I know you pretty much raise all your pairs when first into a pot, just like you’d raise with the big broadways.

The flop comes K-9-K and you bet out. I’m still not really worried at this point. I really don’t think you have a king and you’d probably be betting just the same with AQ, AJ, pocket 10’s or pocket 8’s. Yes I’m behind on the last two hands, but don’t you have to worry that I have a king too? That’s why I didn’t raise the flop with my middle pair, I sure as hell wouldn’t put a raise with a King if I had one there. I call and I’ll re-evaluate on the turn.

Turn comes a complete rag and you check. This threw me off a bit. I could have bet but I didn’t want to get check-raised out of the hand so I just checked behind. I really don’t think I can call one more bet on the turn though. Whatever you have at that point should be better than my middle pair and I’d have to lay it down. All I wanted now was a cheap showdown. I would really be hard pressed to call any bet on the river unless…

The river brings a six. When you bet out on the river, it was obvious you had a piece of the board. I min-raised hoping you’d push with a king and I’d call with my boat but that’s not exactly what happened.

To recap, you were crazy unfortunate for that river card but you made a mistake by calling that last raise.

3:11 AM  
Blogger smokkee said...

i haven't used my neteller card in a coupla weeks. i'll give it a try next time i'm at the casino to verify this. if it's true no one in the U.S. can withdraw, that's total BS. luckily i've aready withdawn most of my funds there.

congrats on your cash in the 30k Hoy.

3:43 AM  
Blogger Blinders said...

Holy crap! I withdrew all my funds from Neteller the day they announced thier pull out. I was able to request a payout to my checking account. I was thinking how smart I was, but now see the funds did not make it to my account yet (2-3 days is normal). Those bastard stole my money. Anyway fraud is fraud and they are a public company. The only way they don't pay us out, is if the stock is delisted, company goes under, and management goes to jail. No corporate protection for something like this. I hope they will come around soon

3:51 AM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Well said, Artiste. I don't disagree with anything you said. Crazy unlucky river card for me. And I certainly did not have to make that call on the end. But if you read my previous comment to Patch, the point I'm making is a valid one IMO. When I'm purposely playing to deceive you and appear weak when I feel quite sure I am actually ahead, the whole reason I'm doing it is to make you bet at me with a less than nut hand at the end. I never considered you were on a King as I did not feel you would play the hand the way you did, so even when you minraised I figured I had to call because I had gotten just what I wanted. I just think that given the way the cards fell at the end, there was no way I could know you just hit your pocket pair. So you may be right that, knowing what you had, I should not have called you on the end in that specific instance. But I assure you, over my online poker career, calling that exact kind of small raise or smallish bet on the end in a situation where I have purposefully sent a false weak message out earlier in the hand has been hugely profitable for me over time, even if in this case you happened to hit an unforeseeable miracle 19-to-1 two-outer to break into a huge lead on the last card.

So how did you lose all those chips so fast after dispensing of my stack so early on in the tournament?

3:57 AM  
Blogger jhazen said...

I chatted with Fuel later and heard that he got horribly rivered out early from the WPBT tournament as well.

I apologized after the river because I rivered a straight, and thought I'd rivered him, but it turns out that I was ahead of his 3rd pair and flush draw the whole hand. If I'd had a smaller stack, I may have folded my second pair to his turn C/R, but it smelled funny.

For the record:
Seat 7: jhazen (10,085)
Seat 9 (button): Fuel55 (1,995)
*** HOLE CARDS ***
jhazen raises to 360
Fuel55 calls 360
*** FLOP *** [Kc 7s Ac]
jhazen checks
Fuel55 checks
*** TURN *** [Kc 7s Ac] [Jh]
jhazen bets 700
Fuel55 raises to 1,400
jhazen calls 700
*** RIVER *** [Kc 7s Ac Jh] [Th]
jhazen bets 300
Fuel55 calls 235, and is all in
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4,170 | Rake 0
Board: [Kc 7s Ac Jh Th]
Seat 7: jhazen showed [Qs Kd] and won (4,170) with a straight, Ace high
Seat 9: Fuel55 (button) mucked [9c Jc] - a pair of Jacks

4:00 AM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Blinders, your story and mine sound more or less exactly the same with Neteller. I withdrew the funds to my checking account as soon as the shit started to hit the fan, but apparently I was not fast enough. 2-3 days has been normal for me usually as well -- actually more like 1-2 days even -- so when a week or more went by without the funds showing up in my checking account, I knew something was up and emailed them. Then another 3 or 4 days later and I get this recockulously vague and mysterious email from them, and that's when I called their support line and spoke to the lady who suggested I sign up for the Neteller Gold card.

And Smokkee, according to Neteller's website, that card is not going to work for a withdrawal anymore. Please let me know if you experience otherwise.

4:03 AM  
Blogger BuddyDank said...

If we can vote, I'd want the MATH to be moved to FT still. It's the only place I still have money. And I prefer it far and beyond Stars. Just my 2 cents.
Same story with Neteller here. But what it looks like to me as that they were straight up lying to me when I spoke with them. 5 days after my request for withdrawal I called their support and a very friendly individual told me that they are just really backed up and are doing the withdrawals as fast as possible. I asked for a time frame and he said 1-2 weeks. At the time that was a good enough answer for me. But now after seeing that everyone is in the same boat, it appears that they had already halted all withdrawals at the time I spoke with them and so instead of telling me that, they just lied. Wow.
I feel like calling them back and playing a recording of Stewey saying "Where's my Money, huh?"

5:25 AM  
Blogger Patch said...

Hoy, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the correctness of Papi's flop call. I've seen a lot of pros bluff into flops like that when they've missed completely. The holdings I would put you on after the pre-flop raise certainly include some cards that would be scary for me with that flop, but they also include a lot of cards that would have missed completely. And now knowing that your EP range extends down to at least A9o, the number of possibles that missed are even greater.

I don't think it's clear that either calling or folding is necessarily wrong in Papi's situation.

No question Papi got very lucky on the river. But it's happened to all of us many times, no doubt on both sides of the odds. Whining about it seems, well, less than mature.

As to the turn, I think this is where you and I differ rather greatly in overall strategy. You like to play long ball, swing for the fences. You take time setting up the play and then hope to cash in big when it hits. But home run hitters almost always are near the top of the strikeout list too. When I swing for the fence I almost always strike out. Maybe there's something wrong with my swing, or maybe I'm just plain unlucky, but I've learned the hard way that I do much better going for singles and doubles. I bet the turn hoping to scoop what's already in the pot, and I say a little prayer to the poker gods when my opponent folds. You've had way more big cashes than I have, so your way may well be better.

6:09 AM  
Blogger cracknaces said...

The Neteller ATM card is having problems now as well. I cannot withdraw from my account to the ATM card anymore. The ATM card seems to still be working, withdrawing to it is impossible now :(

6:15 AM  
Blogger Striker991 said...

So the Gift2go cards work for deposit...what about withdrawal? If your withdrawal is more than your original deposit, can you get the full amount back?

6:48 AM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Striker, frankly I'm sure you cannot withdraw money to a prepaid Visa gift card. For now I am satisfied having a little bit of money in the poker sites so I can play, and I'll worry about getting the money out when that time comes. I've got enough friends outside of the US who play and who I trust enough to transfer and get a check or a wire from or something like that. But to be clear, these Gift2Go cards I'm sure work only for deposit, not withdrawal.

8:25 PM  
Blogger Boneyardxxx said...

Thanks for the gift2go path. I finally reloaded FT.

I'm not sure what the word "withdrawal" that striker mentions means but I assume its a good thing.

8:59 PM  

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