Monday, February 05, 2007

Monday Rant (Aren't These Supposed to Come on Tuesdays?)

Yeah, well, this week the week in rants is starting off early. And for once it's not another blogger or any kind of a recockulous, unbelievable beat that has me going. But it is a poker site -- Full Tilt. My favorite poker site. By far. But what they did last night is so egregious, so extreme and so illogical, I still don't really believe the information I have so far about the whole thing.

Those of you who played late Sunday night on full tilt will know that at almost exactly midnight ET, full tilt's servers experienced an unplanned shutdown. The shutdown last for at least an hour plus, because I finally gave up and went to bed at around 1:15am ET after waiting and waiting for the shit to come back online. Why was I so eager, you may be wondering? Well, because I was right in the middle of the weekly 20k HORSE guarantee tournament.

What's that, you ask? Is that 20k a typo? Isn't this always a 30k guarantee? Yes. This is the first of my many complaints in what I basically view as a comedy of errors from full tilt yesterday. First of all, obviously full tilt has the right to guarantee whatever they want to for their tournaments. That is listed clearly on their tournament rules on their website, and it makes sense in general. I don't get to decide what amount they guarantee for these things, and nobody else does either. Obviously. But, when I played my satellite into this event on Thursday, it was listed as a satellite into the 30k guaranteed tournament. Now, if you think full tilt should be able to get people to pay $75 to qualify into a 30k tournament, and only afterwards change the guarantee to only 2/3 of that amount, then that's where you and I differ. And you would be wrong.

There isn't even a possible justification for this move, so don't bother trying it with me. I'm just too rational and fair-minded to believe any of that silliness. Once they run satellites and qualify people for a 30k guarantee, the only fair outcome is that the tournament is a 30k guarantee. Nobody made full tilt run those satellites and advertise them as for a 30k tournament. Full tilt did that on their own. Then they ought to be men and take responsibility for their actions. Which they did not this weekend, as once they realized this was going to be smaller than they expected, they charged us -- the 25 or so players who had already qualified for the 30k when it was still a 30k -- by deducting a full 10 phucking thousand dollars from the prize pool. Just like that. No warning, no notice, and no opportunity for us to object. They didn't even offer us our money back, the $216 buyin, or even the $75 buyin I had paid to satellite into this thing. Nothing. Instead they just stole 10 grand from the prize pool of a tournament that I go into expecting to win -- I won it a month ago and I was doing great last night again. 10 grand, down the drain, all because full tilt would not take responsibility for their overestimate of traffic on Sunday night.

But little did I know, this was just the beginning.

Again, for those of you who are regularly nightly players on full tilt, but who maybe did not play last night due to the Superbowl going on, you would literally not have believed what I saw last night on full tilt. Across the board, the site had the biggest overlays I have ever seen, in almost every single tournament. I don't know if it was the Superbowl, the payment processor business, or probably some combination of both, but traffic last night on full tilt was far and away the lowest I've seen it in over a year. No other night was even close to last night. Let me give you some examples.

The 20k guaranteed HORSE tournament I played in at 9:30: 84 runners. At $200 a pop, that is a prize pool of $16,800. With a 20k guarantee, that means $3200 of pure overlay from full tilt. And of course, this was really a 30k guarantee until full tilt pulled their recockulous shenanigans late yesterday, for a more accurate overlay of $13,200. Even worse was the Sunday night 35k guaranteed mtt at 10pm ET. This one has a $24 buyin -- I've played it a million times as I know many of you have as well -- which yesterday attracted exactly 960 runners. 960! This thing usually has somewhere over 1700 or so on a Sunday night, even lately since Neteller stole our funds that they'll never return to us U.S. players. Yesterday, 960. 960 players at $24 a pop equals $23,040 in tournament buyins. In other words, a whopping $11,960 in overlay for this bad boy as well. Now I know for a stone cold fact that full tilt has never seen anything even remotely close to last night's situation before, because I've been on on every Sunday night for as long as I can remember, and definitely since long before they turned Sunday night into a 35k guarantee. They've never had a dime of overlay in this thing until just the last few weeks, and even then it hasn't been more than a couple bucks here or there. Yesterday, every single multi-table tournament they ran after, say, 8pm ET, with literally zero exceptions, had a big overlay. Again, full tilt simply grossly overestimated the traffic they would have last night, and as a result they were guaranteeing way WAY more money for their mtt's than was actually bought in by players in the events. It was so bad that I was playing 4 tournaments at once for most of the night, just to make sure I could take advantage of the ridiculous overlay. I mean shit I never usually play. Satellites to the Monday 1k guarantee, with 33 runners at $24 a pop for about 40% of the prize pool in overlay. The 35k which I haven't been playing at all lately, again with about a full 40% of the prize pool in the form of overlay being paid by full tilt.

Or at least, it was supposed to be paid by full tilt.

Instead, at midnight ET, full tilt's servers mysteriously crash. They're off for at least a few hours, and you can log in this morning to see that every tournament that was active at that time was automatically voided, with no exceptions. Interesting, huh?

Even more interesting is what full tilt's obligations are in such a situation. From the "Tournament Rules" portion of the full tilt website:

"Occasionally, due to technical difficulties, a tournament may be cancelled. Depending on the tournament's status at the time of this cancellation, Full Tilt Poker will do the following:

31.2. If the tournament had not yet reached the money - All players still in the tournament at the time of the cancellation will be refunded their tournament buy-in and tournament fee. Players will have their buy-ins refunded in the same currency they used to enter the tournament (real money, tokens, etc.), unless they earned their entry through a satellite, in which case, they will be refunded the standard buy-in for the tournament. In addition, the buy-ins of players already eliminated from the tournament will be divided up and distributed to the remaining players, based on their chip counts. Guarantees and money added to the prize pool will not be included in the player payouts.

31.3. If the tournament had reached the money - All players still in the tournament at the time of the cancellation will be awarded with the next guaranteed payout and have their tournament fee returned. In addition, the remaining prize pool will be distributed amongst the surviving players based on their chip counts.

Very interesting (I added the emphasis up there btw, that's not in bold on the website). And even more coincidental. On the very night where the overlay on every single mtt on full tilt is larger by a significant factor than any other night in the history of the site as far as I know (and given the regularity with which I play there, I would know -- trust me on that one), the servers just happen to go down at midnight. Also interesting is the fact that our HORSE guarantee was down to 48 players from the original 84 runners (there are usually more like 150), with only the top 16 cashing. The 35k with the 12k of overlay also was nearing the money spots but not quite in there yet at 12 midnight, just about 25 spots away from ITM, when boom! The servers are down for "emergency maintenance" according to an email I received from full tilt support this morning.

Now take a look at those payout rules I just posted above. Interesting, isn't it, that in the case of a voided tournament due to technical difficulties where the ITM spots have not yet been reached, all tournament guarantees are voided, whereas if the tournament is already ITM, then the guaranteed payouts are all paid to the remaining players in the event. So let me get this straight, full tilt. You have by far your biggest night of overlay in history, you've grossly overestimated traffic for the night, and then at midnight, just slightly before your largest tournaments of the day are reaching the money, including the big fat 12k of overlay in the 35k, your servers magically go down and stay down. Hmmmmmm.

Anybody else think this is a little, uh, weird? Lucky, maybe, from full tilt's perspective? All I know is, I got a response email from full tilt this morning saying that all players (even those who had busted early in the tournament) are refunded their $216 buyin to the HORSE 20k last night. What the FUCK is that? Your fucking website says you will refund the buyins of the remaining players, but of course pay nothing to anyone who's already busted, since they of course are not the least bit affected by this outage. Why the FUCK would the busted players ever get their fucking buyin back? Especially when full tilt's own fucking website clearly states that the eliminated players' buyins will be redistributed to the remaining players in the tournament according to the chip stacks. At the time I was in 11th place in the tournament out of 48 players remaining, so I would stand to make probably about twice as much (maybe a bit more even) than just having my $216 buyin returned to me. Now can someone please tell me, how in the flying FUCK can full tilt only give me the $216 back, when their own fucking website says I will get paid more than that, and when they are instead refunding the $216 buyins to players who were fucking eliminated already from the tournament long before this "accidental" outage? What the FUCK is going on here, full tilt? You can't be that transparent, can you? Are you that sure that everyone will keep coming back to you and keep playing there, even when you're wilfully and willingly screwing your customers like this? I just don't get it.

So let's just say I wrote a "strongly worded" email back to full tilt support this morning. And the person who receives it will probably wish he or she hadn't gotten up in the morning today by the time they are through with it. I am flat out demanding to be paid more than just my fucking tournament buyin back. And if they refuse, I'll be doing a lot more than just stopping playing at full tilt. Take my word for it on that one. Say what you want about my position, but again I'm not the one who made full tilt's voided tournament payout policy, and I'm not the one who posted those rules on full tilt's website. The simple fact is that full tilt has no choice whatsoever other than to follow their own stated payout policy in this case. Period. I was going to win this fucking weekly HORSE guarantee for the second time in a month last night, and with it the nearly 5 grand first prize, and instead now I only get back my $216 buyin even though I was in 11th place when full tilt "coinicidentally" lost its servers, at a time when the overlays they were about to become obligated to pay were the biggest in the history of the site by far? Uh uh. I don't think so. You motherfuckers won't be pulling this shit with me. And if you persist with it, I will break your asses. These idiots at full tilt have no idea the shitstorm I will release upon them if they don't make this right. No fucking idea at all. I will make them so sorry, it will end up costing them way more than the 100k or so in overlays that they stole -- that's right, stole -- from their players last night who saw good opportunities and jumped in where the overlay was biggest.

And to those of you who believe the server outage at midnight, literally less than an hour before the biggest overlays in the history of full tilt were about to become obligated on them per their own tournament rules, was just accidental and pure coincidence, I have some swampland in Florida I'd love to sell to you. What a fucking joke.

Michael Craig and I were emailing last night, as he was at my table when the HORSE guarantee blew up at midnight, and he suggested to me that the rake the site lost last night way more than exceeds any overlays the site weaseled out of paying by the servers going down. Now, I have nothing but respect for Michael Craig. He just got his brand new gig writing for the full tilt poker blog, and nobody, nobody is more deserving of this honor than Michael in my opinion. I read his blog and I think his poker writing is literally the best of any poker blogger I know out there. And that's not something I would say lightly. Michael Craig is awesome, and full tilt's hiring of him this weekend is at least one decision that full tilt most definitely got right. But I call bullshit on Michael's explanation there. I don't believe this was an accident, and I'm going to guess that full tilt will save more money by not paying the tremendous, historic overlays just by shutting down the site for an hour last night, than they would ever give up in rake during that measly hour. And again, apparently full tilt believes we're all going to keep coming back to play there no matter how many times their servers go down, so they clearly aren't worried about long-term fallout from these alleged "technical difficulties" since they're one of the only 3 or 4 sites left that is willing to flaunt U.S. law enough to keep offering online poker to U.S. players.

All I know is, last night was fucking bullshit. Biggest overlays in the history of the site, with roughly 40% of every mtt prize pool being comprised solely of overlay that full tilt itself would have to put up, and then the servers go down at midnight, just before the tournaments with the biggest overlays are about to reach the money spots, where full tilt's own policy says they have to pay the guarantees. So by purposefully shutting down accidentally halting the servers for an hour, full tilt gets to get out of paying any of those overlays entirely. Very convenient, wouldn't you say? And let's not even get into their recockulous suggestion in email to me that they are simply refunding my $216 buyin and the buyins of even the players who had already been eliminated from these tournaments before the outage. Not only is that illogical, nonsensical and indefensible theft from their better players, but it is patently against the stated rules on full tilt's own website. So that shit ain't happening to me. I assure you of that. Dammit how I hate motherfuckers and the shit they try to pull.

Real quick, tonight is Mondays at the Hoy night, on my new favorite poker site, pokerstars!

So come on out and support the one poker site that cheats its players by bullshit cards and fake random number generators, instead of just baldfacedly stealing guaranteed money from its best customers. See you there for a night of suckouts and bad beats and big blind specials! But at least you know that when the tournament reports a $200 payout for first place at the beginning of the event, that's the amount you'll be getting if you win it.

Also, this weekend I won the second rebuy tournament I ever entered on full tilt, which happened to be a satellite into FTOPS Event #7 which takes place next Thursday, February 15th on the lying, cheating weasel site known as full tilt:

So I am now registered for FTOPS Event #7:

bringing my total FTOPS registrations so far to four -- Event #1 on this Friday, Feb. 9, next Tuesday, Feb. 13, the rebuy event next Thursday, Feb. 15, and then next Friday, Feb. 16. All this assuming, of course, that full tilt makes me whole and fairly compensates me for the dicking they are trying to foist on everyone who played the big-overlay guaranteed tournaments last night. Because if they haven't, I'll have this entire fucking site shut down long before this weekend. No way they're pulling that weasel shit on me.

Anybody else have an opinion as strong as mine on this?

See you tonight for Mondays at the Hoy!! Yay pokerstars!!!


Blogger FishyMcDonk said...

I do not have an opinion as strong as yours. Pokerstars is definitely the class act of the online poker world, but FT has the better tournament structure and choice of non-holdthem games. It's a tuff one.

10:27 PM  
Blogger jjok said...

Let em sort out their folly and pay you back. It's not like this is the first time this has happened.

I think it's bullshit though.....and glaringly obvious that they pulled the plug.

10:58 PM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Yeah JJ, I will be fine with this all if they fairly compensate me for their bullshit. Of course, the *real* best way to compensate would be to just pay me the 11th place money since I was in 11th place when the servers "went down". But I understand that that's not what full tilt's stated rules say. But I'll be fucking damned if I'm going to let full tilt not pay me according to their own fucking rules man. No fucking way. If they want to reimburse everyone who played last night for their $216 buyin, that's up to full tilt and I couldn't care less. As long as those buyins are also being redistributed to the remaining players according to chip stacks, per full tilt's website tournament rules, then I will accept that unfair but at least as-stated outcome, and move on. Fucking assholes.

And of course they pulled the plug. Fucking assholes. They saved themselves probably 50-100k in guarantees just by pulling the plug when they did. Every mtt from about 8:45pm ET on, including all the 12pm tourneys that were about to start that also had huge overlays built into them, and the big ones were overlays of like 10k or more apiece. I'd be curious to know if they really lost 100k in rake by being down for just the hour that it took for them to void all the night's mtt's. Fucking dickwads.

11:21 PM  
Blogger Ignatious said...

So come on out and support the one poker site that cheats its players by bullshit cards and fake random number generators, instead of just baldfacedly stealing guaranteed money from its best customers.


freaking hilarious. awesome rant, hoy.

11:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know you're pissed dude but no way Full Tilt intentionally pulls to plug to avoid paying overlays.

The lost rake and potenial of losing customers particulary in light of the neteller and US Justice Department FAR FAR FAR outweighs any money they pay out due to overlays.

The probably make $1M a day on rake what is $50K on overlays other than less profit on one day?

Also by far the biggest event of the day was the $300K guarantee nearly 9x times higher than the $35K and the $25K that was raked in entry fees from that event certainly helps defray costs of overlays.

I'm sorry you're upset Hoy but I think this is a big picture situation. No way Full Tilt compromises their integrity and flushes its cash cow down the drain for $50K in overlays.

Hope you'll still play the Big Game on Full Tilt.

11:51 PM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Don, I'll be there in the Big Game regardless, as long as I haven't had full tilt shut down for good before then. No worries on that front.

But two points:

1. If there wasn't overlay in the 300k yesterday -- which I have no idea about since I wasn't on that early -- then the fact that the servers didn't pull the plug on that one is not particularly meaningful to me. I have the feeling it was the nighttime mtt's that went off during Superbowl time that really suffered the most from overlay. Maybe I'm wrong about that, I really don't know.

2. None of this addresses my real problem with what happened yesterday, which is that full tilt merely refunded my $216 buyin, giving no credence whatsoever to the people who had been knocked out already, who were way in the chip lead, etc., effectively treating me (11th place out of 48 remaining when the shit hit the fan) exactly the same as the donk who busted out of this thing first, 2 hours before the server "issues". And, that this is in direct conflict with full tilt's own tournament rules as stated on their website. That is egregious to the nth degree, and it's not defensible by any reasonable argument. Eff full tilt for that, and until they fix that situation, at least with respect to me, I'm going to ruin their entire business. They have no idea the depths to which I will rise to take their shit down. Asscocks.

12:09 AM  
Blogger bayne_s said...


Last night was actually the 2nd Sunday in a row that the Full Tilt Server went down. Previous Sunday outage occurred later so you being on the East Coast may not have noticed.

I was certainly pissed at FullTilt when servers went down as I felt I was playing well having already won a seat in Event #3 and was doing well in a satellite to Event #1 and the 2315 Omaha/8. Since there is no telling how long it will be until my inner donkey rears up I was disappointed.

Doubt FullTilt is concerned with $100k in Guarantees and would risk offending players with a shutdown. Those that qualified for Aussie Millions on FullTilt received a pleasant surprise of $1771 added to our accounts while we were in Australia. Explanation I was given was that it was the difference in value of $10,500 US and 10,500 Australian.

I am sure all of the qualifiers (28 freeroll + ~100 others) that I was around were surprised to receive this.

Point is that if they are willing to give away $100k+ to people who are already experiencing an amazing trip don't see them giving up rake to screw people over on guarantees.

12:15 AM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

OK bayne, we can agree to disagree on that point. Please see my earlier comment though on how full tilt chose to handle the payouts (refunds) for that HORSE 20k guarantee I was in at the time of the outage. Many people seem to be commenting on full tilt having done this on purpose, fine so be it, but I have yet to see anyone even address this second, and much more important issue, which I assume is because nobody can possibly find a way to justify what's been done. Eff full tilt until they pay out exactly the way their website says they will pay out.

12:37 AM  
Blogger lucko said...

"my new favorite poker site, pokerstars!"


1:44 AM  
Blogger bayne_s said...


Have to agree with you on your 2nd point that Full Tilt should adhere to their own rules for payout.

Have to also agree with your point that the Guarantee should not drop after 1st satellite seat is won.

VP of marketing does read all the e-mails that support gets but if you want his direct e-mail send me an e-mail to semd_all_stinking_spam_here at yahoo dot com. It is my throw away e-mail account

1:57 AM  
Blogger bayne_s said...


Sorry put a typo in email it is send not semd

1:58 AM  
Blogger KajaPoker said...

I agree with you 1000% on the fact they should have kept their 30K instead of "downgrading" it to 20K and that they should pay according to their rules.

I agree with MiamiDon that they would not want to risk their reputation and client base with a shitstorm of Hoy proportions. A lot of what's left of this industry has to rely on existing clients and word of mouth and pulling the plug on purpose would be a big mistake.

2:08 AM  
Blogger lucko said...

I just read that they paid out the guarantees in those tournaments even though they didn't reach the money before going down. I am not sure if that is true though. We made need a Hoy retraction rant if it is. Although the 20k vs 30k was definitely very shady.

2:21 AM  
Blogger 23skidoo said...

Thats a tough one Hoy, I don't think they'd pull the plug, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. I have to agree with Don, that they lose more being offline or at least can't offset the cost of being offline by saving themselves some overlay.

I do agree that they should uphold their posted rules for paying out a canceled tourney though, so good luck with that.

Sorry I missed you in NYC last week, hopefully I will be able to make plans a little further in advance next time.

2:24 AM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Lucko, if you can point me to where you read that full tilt paid off the guarantees on those tournaments, I would really love to see it. I got an email this morning that specifically stated that all players (including those already eliminated at the time of the outage) were simply refunded the $216 buyin. I just about went crazy when I saw that. My hat flew right off my head and about 25 feet into the air when I read it.

2:39 AM  
Blogger lucko said...

I think it was a thread on pocket fives. The emails weren't correct. I know sprstoner got an e-mail from the 300k that had incorrect information as well. I think they will take care of their customers here.

3:28 AM  
Blogger Blinders said...

Wow Hoy, stop hating on FT so much. My takes are:

1) If the tourney says 30k at time of registration (sat completion in your case), they have to pay or at least offer a refund prior to start. You have a case for the 30k if this is true.

2) Policy for tourneys not in the money is clearly stated. They don't have to pay the guarantee for your event. This policy makes sense to me, and I would say is fair providing they did not pull the plug on purpose. For in the money tourneys they pay the guarantee

3) I doubt they pulled the plug on purpose. They would lose way more in rake than the even the overlay at 30k. Your event was probably one of the few tournaments affected. Most other running guarantees probably were in the money.

4) You still need to be paid per the policy, even if they refunded all players thier buy-in. You probably will not get much as you will only be deviding the eliminated players buy-in by chip count.

I think this all sucks. You should have been able to get the 30k, but the outage eliminated that. They are trying to weazle out of paying you correctly as well. I hope they straighten all this out. I am not heading back to PokerStars.

4:06 AM  
Blogger JL514 said...

Hoy, off topic, but thanks for stopping by my blog and leaving your thoughts on the WaF post. As far as the hanging up issue, I never realized how rude it was until I started posting these. We still talk basically just so she can fight with me and since I started the posts, I've been much more respectful in the way I deal with things. If she pisses me off to the point that I would normally hang up, I tell her she's crossed the line and I'm not interested in talking anymore.

New ones should be up every Friday so continue to stop by and weigh in on the fun :)

4:25 AM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Blinders, I agree 100% with your point #1.

Point #2 I almost fully agree with, but I can't agree that the no-guarantee policy makes sense. Some sense maybe, but not full sense. Why not pay the full guaranteed amount out, when it was their fault and not ours that the tournament was voided? I mean, if the site was ready, willing and able to pay out 20k a couple hours later if the tournament had been permitted to run to fruition, then there's no reason they shouldn't pay it out in some form to the remaining players when it ended early. Just my two cents.

Regarding your third point, I did a quick look and estimated there was probably around 50k-80k in overlay in current non-ITM tournaments as of midnight when the outage occurred. This includes every big mtt that started after around 9pm ET or so, as well as those listed to start at midnight (there are several), all of which also were marked for huge overlays had they been allowed to go off as scheduled. And although a lot of people have said otherwise here on my comments today, I wish I could just accept that the site lost 80k in rake for one hour of play. But I'm not nearly as confident about that statement's truth as many others seem to be. Maybe you're right -- I don't actually claim to know -- but do I really think full tilt is making 80k in rake in just one hour from midnight to 1am ET? Truth be told, I would guess not. But maybe, as I said I freely admit that I don't really know.

Your point #4 is undoubtedly correct. Full tilt has no choice but to pay me per their stated payout guidelines on their own website. That's the point I keep trying to drive home in my post and these comments today. And that is what is driving me so crazy. They're going to give all the eliminated players' buyins back to them today, instead of dividing them up to the rest of us per the stated payout guidelines from the full tilt website? No effin way.

I'm still expecting when I get home tonight this will all have been resolved over email. I can't imagine full tilt is going to risk facing my full wrath over something they are so clearly wrong about.

Thanks for the comments everybody.

4:27 AM  
Blogger katitude said...

FYI, FT has crashed 3x in the last 2 months when I've been on, anything from a ten minute period to an hour and a half.

This is not new; nor do I think it's intentional.

4:36 AM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Yes I don't mean to suggest this is the first time their servers have gone down, I know for a fact it happened a couple of weeks ago as well, also on a Sunday as I recall. But I betcha they paid those mtt's out according to the stated payout policy on their website. If not, and no one has called them on it yet, then they're in for a big surprise this week.

4:59 AM  
Blogger Patch said...

If the tournament hasn't reached the money, FT (assuming they follow their own rules) refunds the buy-in PLUS tournament fee of remaining players. They split up the buy-in of eliminated players among those players remaining. FT keeps only the tournament fees of the eliminated players. They didn't get their full cut of the tournament fees so it's not unreasonable for them to reduce any overlay. You could argue for a formula based on them distributing a percentage of the overlay based on fees collected, but it's still not unreasonable to reduce the overlay to some degree.

They've taken a comparatively simplistic approach, though I suspect most players' eyes glaze over before they reach the end of the first line of 31.2. If they made it much more complicated very few people would have any chance of understanding it.

6:02 AM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

It's a good point, Patch. But I still think that to just say "they didn't get their full cut of the tournament fees" so they shouldn't have to come up with the overlay kind of glazes over the key issue here -- it was their servers that caused the problem. Plainly put, I think any system that allows any poker site to avoid paying a huge overlay just by having an outage is not creating a smart incentive, nor one fully based on sound logic. Maybe that's just my view and it's not shared by others, but I just can't see how it makes logical sense for full tilt to avoid paying, say, 12k in overlay for that 35k guaranteed tournament last night because of a problem they had with their own servers. Frankly I would much rather have them just pay out the guaranteed overlay (when there is one) and keep the tournament fees, but again maybe that's just me. When the total amount of tournament overlay way outweighs the total amount of tournament fees, this system is starkly in favor of the poker sites and starkly against the players, in particular those like me who play certain tournaments only because they see a massive overlay a few minutes before the scheduled start time.

Good point though about the poker site not getting to keep the fees, I'm sure that is all or part of their justification for their policy.

6:22 AM  
Blogger Christopher said...

Hoyazo, I've once been ousted from a tournament by FTP after their servers failed. It was a $1 rebuy, haha, thank God I got pushed out as I realised what a horror rebuys are - should've read your rebuy post of olde before starting it. Anyway, we all got our buy-ins returned immediately and notification by e-mail, however a day or so later I received a second e-mail which had an "apology" with commensurate compensation of $5. Perhaps this was the prize pool and discarded buy-ins distributed out? Not out of the realm of imagination with the number of rebuys that occurred. I guess I'm saying that your additional compensation may be on its way, but just taking a while.

7:21 AM  
Blogger FTPDoug said...

Hi Hammer, I'd like to reply to this from Full Tilt's perspective.

First of all, let me apologize for the downtime on Sunday night. It was definitely not planned, and had nothing to do with overlays on our tournaments. Believe me when I say we did not come out ahead just because a couple of our guarantees missed by a little.

As for the specific problems with the Sunday Night HORSE tournament:

On Feb 3rd at 9:46PM ET, you won a "Sunday Night HORSE Satellite" with a tournament comment of "Satellite to the Sunday Night HORSE tournament." There was actually no mention of the guarantee at all on the satellite itself. Had you looked at the target tournament, you would have seen that it had a $20,000 guarantee all week (and in fact was $20,000 the week before as well).

The confusion might be that you also won a "Satellite to $30K Guarantee" on Sunday? I'm not sure, but I do know that at no point was the Sunday Night HORSE advertized as a $30K guarantee last week.

Now, another apology. The information you received from support regarding the tournament cancellation policy was not correct at all. It was an old template they used (and hopefully they have sent a correction by now) and we've had a new policy since March of last year. The information on the website that you found is correct.

That being said, here are the payouts of Sunday Night HORSE after the server went down (this doesn't show up in the client, but the amount below is what you were paid right when the tournament was voided):

Position Player ID $ Won
1 BowToYourSensei $627.40
2 Ur_Dominated $568.49
3 Mstr Charles $549.17
4 moonbeams $533.40
5 breauxdle $527.03
6 scottyrob1 $514.57
7 poverllo7 $498.57
8 Cardsharps_net $485.71
9 B_O_K_E $457.51
10 vixen $440.23
11 hoyazo $416.71
12 bachboy $408.46
13 Payton3434 $403.89
14 RyDoc21 $387.94
15 calbears $385.26
16 BadgerDawg $384.37
17 MrMersh $377.66
18 sted49 $376.97
19 SG1fan $376.40
19 blackmetalhead $376.40
21 jullien $373.00
22 dfulvio $366.49
23 Magic Aces $359.23
24 May-68 $358.14
25 Golfman81 $347.51
26 WARDROPS $344.54
27 THAY3R $343.83
28 Jen Creason $342.89
29 A_Junglen $337.71
30 Michael Craig $330.69
31 FlushDonk $309.43
32 Rtrout $307.66
33 ARARA VEIA $306.74
34 GIZZY_MAN $303.91
35 slamminshawn $300.91
36 Gator93 $293.63
37 dereeekho $289.06
38 Poker-Babe $286.63
39 G316K $285.00
40 MarvinGarden $275.26
41 ss47 $274.51
42 elway7j $271.20
43 FLYINGCBAR $263.23
44 DraNDead $253.03
45 justcarol $245.54
46 BackRoads23 $244.80
47 Morris955 $237.06
48 Tigertoo $220.23

Again, I apologize for the confusion. At some point later today I believe you will also receive an apology in the form of a little cash (as will all of our real money players who were playing at the time of the downtime on Sunday).


7:37 PM  
Blogger FTPDoug said...

Whoops, sorry for calling you Hammer, Hoyazo! Also, I forgot to mention that we were down for 4.5 hours on Sunday night, not the 1-1.5 that you thought. That may change your mind about how intentional you think it was...

I also forgot to say good luck in FTOPS! I think those are going to be some fun events.


8:00 PM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Wow. Now how do full tilt personnel find me here ranting like this? Should I be embarrassed?

In any event I will be explaining how this was resolved in my next post. Thanks Doug.

8:22 PM  

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