Tuesday, February 20, 2007

Back to the Grind

It's always hard for me after a thing like the FTOPS. As I've written about here many times, I look forward to these large-guarantee tournaments more than most since I never get to play in tournaments this big during the late nights, the only times I generally ever play online poker. I am blessed with a gorgeous and fun family who always comes first for me with my free time, but the one negative result of that otherwise fabulous good fortune for me is that I never get to do the big Sunday tournaments on pokerstars or full tilt, never the Saturday afternoon biggies either, etc. So, I'm left with things like the FTOPS to get all juiced up about, to dream of the really big score, and I end up looking forward to these things far more than I probably should. And the end result? When it's over, it can be difficult for me to get back to the daily grind of the ho-hum regular old wimpy 4k, 25k, 30k and 35k guaranteed tournaments that comprise my usual nighttime online poker fare.

That's the situation I am facing now. Last night it was a little tough logging on to full tilt, knowing there would be no 200k guaranteed tournament for me to participate in, no large O8 field replete with several pros and about a million donks just waiting to give me their money, and no $1.5 million prize pool along with a bunch of my favorite bloggers all taking our chance at The Big One. Nope. Just back to my usual routine, some 30k satellites, maybe some Winner's Choice sats, maybe the 4k HORSE or the 25k guaranteed tournament.

That's why I was happy when I logged on around 7pm ET last night and saw a whole bunch of satellites to this "Grant Guarantee" on full tilt. Turns out this was a fun 50k guarantee tournament last night at 9:30pm ET, special for the President's Day holiday in the U.S., and that helped cushion the blow quite a bit of getting back to the daily mtt grind. In fact, as they were running turbo satllites basically every 5-10 minutes or so for this thing, I arrived at a strange decision: I played in five of them. Now, I knew I was going to win my way into the event in at least one of these five. With all the WC sats and the FTOPS sats and weekly HORSE sats and the nightly 30k sats I play in, I've got my multi-seat mtt satellite game honed to a sharp point. So I knew I'd get in to the Grant Guarantee and would not need 5 shots to do it. But, after the FTOPS, it makes some sense for me to get back to bankroll-building mode, and I view these mtt satellites as probably my best shot at cashing out of any strucute of mtt I can play in these days. So, I figured, I'll play the 5 remaining satellites last night, win my $55 buyin through one of them, and just pocket the cash for whatever other seats I can get.

Fast forward about 90 minutes later, and I had won 3 seats to the Grant Guarantee. That was one buyin to the 9:30pm ET 50k tournament, and $110 cash into my bankroll. Seriously, I could play and win these mtt sats in my sleep at this point. And there is just something so great about not having to play all the way down to the final seat. Just make it to the top 10 or 15 finishers, you've got your seat, and then you can just push allin if you so choose. Not only does it make the tournament itself go much faster, but it takes away a lot of the pressure as well that is normally associated with very late-stage mtt play. Only having to play down to 10 or 15 players is probably the best part to me of these multitable, multi-seat satellites, and I think the single biggest factor in making these things so easy to cash in.

So, never mind the fact that I played like donkey for some reason and was out of the actual Grant Guarantee in about 20 minutes after getting not one but two second-best (yet still very good) hands. What's important is that I got to play my mtt satellite game, got some more great practice, and won $110 cash for my roll in the process. Thank you full tilt.

So, out of the Grant Guarantee at around 9:50pm ET, that gave me perfect time to prepare for the weekly Mondays at the Hoy tournament on pokerstars at 10pm ET. Last night saw one of the largest fields we've seen in several weeks for the MATH tournament, with 27 runners each ponying up their $20 buyin for a shot at a $270 first prize, as well as the more valuable opportunity to get on to, or increase one's standing on, the 2007 Hoy moneyboard, where yours truly sat perched atop of the pack heading in to last night's affair.

Things started off well for me in the Hoy last night, as I found pocket Aces and pocket Kings within the first 30 minutes, using the Aces to nearly double up off of Mungo when he could not get away from his pocket Jacks with just one (non-Ace) overcard on the board and getting me up to the top of the leaderboard shortly into the event. I managed to stay there for the better part of the first hour of the event, that is, until LOK called me allin with his KQ against my AQ. Now, you may remember a couple of weeks back when LOK sucked out in consecutive nights to eliminate me both nights from the Mookie and then Al's Riverchasers tournaments on full tilt. Anyways, getting a chance to exact some revenge against LOK with my AQ against his KQ here was something I was pretty in to, and when the flop came KKJ, you can imagine how hard I kicked the dog in my apartment (ok so there's not really a dog in my apartment. I'm talking metaphorically here guys). Disgusting.

So, with my stack suddenly knocked down to a much more ordinary level, I was forced to keep myself off uber LOK tilt and try to keep playing my game. I declared to anyone who would listen in the girly chat that I no longer cared about winning the Hoy last night, and that I had only one objective -- to take LOK out of the thing, at any cost. No less than 10 people reminded me how bad of poker that is, to target an individual at the table for a personal vendetta instead of just playing your game -- and I informed each one of them of my acknowledgement of that fact. I wanted to play bad poker. I wanted to blow off my chance of winning. I was determined to just play any pot LOK was in if I could get in for any reasonable price, and try to hit something big to take him out. Happily, I didn't even have to make any stupid plays to get there, as within the next 30 minutes or so, nearing the final table bubble of the Hoy and with LOK sitting as the short stack, he open-pushed from the cutoff position, and I looked down from the big blind at A9o. I knew it was not a great play, but going with my stated intentions from the girly chat, I had to make the call, and LOK flipped up....

A8o. I was shocked to be ahead here, and relieved. And, I was even more relieved when my dominating hand actually held up against him!! I still can't believe it. So I reached my goal and eliminated LOK from the Hoy, securing my ability to survive past the two remaining short stacks and eventually reach the final table in the process (I believe my 856th consecutive Hoy final table, I'll have to check on that to verify).

Unfortuantely, my run to the pot o gold in the Hoy was ended shortly thereafter, as Smokkee, who has recently returned to pokerstars and forsaken full tilt due to a nasty string of beats at the latter, had amassed a pretty big stack by the beginning of final table play. And, for those of you who have played a lot with Smokkee before, as much of a risk-taker he can be at the beginning of a tournament, you have to multiply that by...oh....about 10,000 to see what he can be like with a big stack late in a tournament. So early on in the final table, somebody raised the 200 blinds to 600 from UTG+1 preflop, and Smokkee smooth called that raise from MP. In the small blind, I pushed in with my shortest-stack-at-the-table and with me holding pocket 9s. The first raiser folded, and Smokkee instantaneously called me with two crappy overs, I forget which two (youdonk). Let's just say that to even have called the preflop raise with his hand was a dubious play (and that's being kind), let alone calling the allin from me after the preflop raiser and caller already in the pot. But that's where Smokkee's mindset was at the time, and naturally he hit one of his laughable overcards and I was out in 9th place from the Hoy.

And once again I'm back to that word again -- mindset. Much as I wrote about with a certain someone and the massive stack she had amassed early on the WWdN a couple of weeks back, at which point she started calling anything and everything, sucking out on a bunch of people but eventually succumbing to the only possible outcome with that "call everything" mindset she had found halfway through the tournament, I will say it again now -- mindset is everything in an mtt. And this is all the more true in a tournament like the Hoy, where the skill level is generally much higher than what you'll find at your usual online mtt donkfest or even a larger, broader-based blogger tournament like the WWdN. So, with Smokkee's mindset where it was to be calling not only the EP preflop raise with the two embarrassing overcards, but then to also call my preflop push in that situation, I knew he couldn't win the thing. Even when it got down to just the final two players, with Smokkee having I believe a 450,000-to-1 chip lead over Bayne, I just knew Smokkee didn't have the right mindset to win it. And although the two battled it out for several minutes in heads-up play, with Smokkee fairly quickly losing his huge chiplead to Bayne, but then sucking it all back out when he nailed a flush on the turn for all his chips against Bayne's top pair, I still could not shake the feeling that Smokkee was playing with Lucko's aggression level, but without quite Lucko's hand selection to go along with it, which is a dangerous combination. Eventually Bayne took the lead back again with some solid play and hitting some flops with middle pairs, weak top pairs, etc., and then his AT prevailed over Smokkee's A9 in the final hand to ice Bayne's first-ever Hoy win, and maybe even his first Hoy cash as I think about it:

In the end it was a fun time had by all as always, in again what was the largest MATH field in several weeks which is always a good thing. So congratulations to our cashers, with Omega_man_99, a new player with whom I am not familiar, ending in 3rd place and taking home $108 for his efforts, and Smokkee ending in 2nd place for $162. And Bayne took it all down, winning his first weekly Hoy title along with the $270 first prize in the largest Hoy prize pool thus far of 2007, enabling Bayne to power his way solidly onto the 2007 Hoy moneyboard in the process (updated to include this week's results):

1. Hoyazo $400
2. Fuel55 $350
3. VinNay $310
4. Bayne_s $270
5. Manik79 $252
6. Smokkee $162
7. Chad $120
7. Zeem $120
9. Ganton516 $114
10. Omega_man_99 $108
10. Wigginx $108
12. NewinNov $90
13. Columbo $80
13. PhinCity $80
13. jeciimd $80
16. l.e.s.ter000 $72
17. Julius Goat $60

And who is that up on top of the list still? Can anyone dethrone me? Just please promise you'll all keep calling me with two crapovers at the final table, and I think I'll stay right where I am thank you very little.

OK a few other quick things. As part of my return to the normal routine last night, I decided to play the nightly HORSE mtt at 10:15pm ET for the first time in several weeks, and I ended up having a great run. A run that included nailing quad 9s in stud high once I was allin on 3rd street nearing the ITM positions, and just generally hitting a lot of big cards right when I needed them. That HORSE tournament really turns in to quite the luckfest once you're ITM, as the blinds get so big that you're basically totally at the mercy of the cards, what you start with and in particular what the board brings you. After getting into the money positions which began at 24th place like usual (163 runners started off in this event, fairly usual for these days in this tournament), the O8 hands began, and just to harken back to a post from last week, with high blinds I managed to get A2 dealt to me in about 4 out of 5 hands. As with last week, I went ahead and raised almost every one of these up (I followed Garth's advice and did not raise when I was in EP on one or two occasions, much to my profit, thank you Garth), but unlike my terrible final hour to the FTOPS O8 event last week, this time I actually managed to make a low in most of these hands. At the risk of causing some of you to stop reading poker blogs in general, let's just say that I had a nice run in these hands, one which took me all the way to my elimination hand which saw me take a flop with just one other player with my hand of A♠2♠3♠K♣. The flop came 3♥4♠K♠. So, I was looking at the nearly-uncounterfeitable nut low draw with any 5, 6, 7 or 8 falling on the turn or river, plus on the high side I had the nut flush draw with any spade on the turn or river, a straight draw with any 5 falling on the turn or river, and I had top and bottom pairs on the flop already to boot. Long story short, with all this stuff working for me on the flop, I ended up getting my shortish stack allin with one opponent after I checkraised him on the flop and then checkraised him again on the turn when another offsuit Ace fell. He flipped up nothing but a bunch of high cards, but the offsuit 2 on the river meant that I did not fill my flush, did not fill my straight, and did not make a boat for the high side, and even worse I also failed to fill my low thanks to the double-counterfeit on the turn and river. And, what's worse, my opponent made a set of Kings and scooped the entire massive pot from me. Frustrating to the say the least. Still, a very nice run for me overall:

Of course, Chad outdid me here and ended up finishing in 7th place overall in this thing, but I'm still very pleased with my performance overall. And Chad, in a weird deja vu from a few months ago, let me personally congratulate you for a job well done for a guy who was quitting online poker for good as of the end of the FTOPS on Sunday. You truly are amazing when you're not playing online poker anymore buddy. I'm glad to see you always not following through with these silly threats, but at the same time I think I liked playing tournaments against you better when you were posting middle finger pictures and running bad instead of proclaiming the end of your online poker career. Congrats man, great run.

Secondly, go stop by jeciimd's blog if you have the chance for an interesting question about how to play certain big starting hands to a lot of action preflop. I for one am looking forward to jec's comments on that, in addition to maybe, someday, finally getting up a post about his incredible run to 13k+ in the FTOPS O8 event from last Wednesday.

Lastly, about the hand I posted about yesterday from the FTOPS Main Event, if you'll recall I called a preflop raise with ATo and found one more caller from the blinds as well, going on to see a three-handed flop of AT5. This was near the end of the second hour of the event, with my stack sitting at just under the 5000-chip starting level. So, after UTG+1 bet out the size of the pot (240 chips) on the AT5 flop that I nailed, I minraised to 480 chips with my top 2 pairs, and then the big blind min-reraised me to 960 chips. UTG+1 folded, and I smooth called, partially as a slow-play and partially for protection just in case this guy had flopped a miracle set of Tens or 5s. When the turn came a King, I bet out for 1200 chips for half the pot, and was quickly reraised allin by the big blind. This was where I asked for your advice on what he likely had, and how you would play it from here.

The comments I received were interesting to me. A number of you felt that I was clearly ahead here, and that the guy was likely some donk probably holding something like AJ or AQ, and that I was about to double up nicely. Personally I think this would not be smart poker by me. The guy min-reraised, which as Smokkee wisely points out in the comments, is a very obvious and very overtly suspicious move for anyone to ever make at a poker table. To me, like Smokkee, this move screamed out "big hand!" on the flop. Now, I had flopped top 2 pairs, so unless he was on a set I was still ok, but I think suggesting that he would min-reraise the flop with just top pair decent kicker, although possible, is just not nearly as likely as him having had either a set or AK, which to me were easily his most likely holdings in this hand.

A few others of you took the opposite approach, saying I must be beat here and that he could even have a hand like QJ, something which even a few of the bloggers in the girly chat said at the time. I think I commented about this yesterday in the comments, but I don't see how you can possibly reasonably put this guy on QJ in this spot. Again I go back to the highly dubious min-reraise on the flop. Is this guy possibly min-reraising two other players giving a lot of action in front of him on a flop of AT5 with just QJ? I mean, he would know he is behind there, and drawing just to a 4-outer inside straight. Is he going to min-reraise there? No way. This guy did not have QJ, it just cannot be. Even a donk might just smooth call my minraise on that flop with QJ (a total donk, mind you), but not even the major donks are reraising with that shit hand, let alone the min reraise.

I was also intrigued by Lucko's comment where he said there was "NO way" he is folding in that spot, with half his stack already in that pot by the turn card. While I can certainly understand the sentiment of wanting to play out the only big hand I've been dealt in 2 hours of play in the biggest online poker tournament I've ever participated in, especially with half of my stack now in the pot on the turn, I have to ask you then, what hand do you think I can beat? What does this guy realistically have that I can beat? Before the King on the turn, I could easily see this guy having AK -- in fact, that's exactly what I had put him on as of the min-reraise. Although a set was very much a possibility, if I had to guess I think the set raises more than just the min-reraise there, given that there's already been such action on the flop he can probably assume TPTK or top two pairs, etc. will call a bigger reraise than that. I think the min-reraise fits perfectly well with AK. So, when the King fell on the turn card, making the board AT5K rainbow, and he moved me allin with his raise on the turn, I looked at the possible holdings that would fit his preflop call of a raiser and a caller from the big blind, his min-reraise on the AT5 flop and now the push on the turn. What hands could he have here that I can beat? This is a huge tournament, and he had a nice-sized stack going in, so I am not putting him on a stone bluff here (again, especially not with that curious min-reraise on the flop). So, if he's not stone bluffing, is he really possibly doing all this with AJ or AQ? No way I say. Once that King fell, if he had an Ace weaker than AK, then he would have to fear me having the AK as much as I feared him having it. So, when he moved me in on the turn there, I could not escape the conclusion that he either had flopped a set, or that he had AK and had just hit a miracle turn card.

So I laid it down. And I never did find out what the guy had. Although for me, I am completely positive that I was behind. I think this was a mature, smart laydown for me, one that I don't think I would have made a year ago. But reviewing everything that happened in the hand, I just can't see him having had anything other than 55, TT, AA or AK, all of which have me crushered with just one card to come. I might have believed he had A5s or something and flopped a lower 2 pairs than mine, but again once he pushed when the King hit the turn, I can't see him doing that to his big stack when I acted like I could have had AK all along and be well ahead of him with just the one card left to his the board. He had to have a set or AK, I am sure as sugar about it. Does anyone feel differently about that? I'd love to hear your reasoning on that one.

OK, WWdN tonight at 8:30pm ET (password is "monkey" as always). I should be there. And, come be a man and join me in the 8:15pm / 8:45pm ET turbo 6-max nlh satellites for the nightly 30k guaranteed on full tilt as well, where I definitely plan to be making my nightly attempt to qualify for the $109 buyin event for a super cheap and very fast-paced 6-max nlh run. Hopefully I will see some of you then, or in the WWdN for some old-school bloggerdonkery.

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Blogger Donnie (aka Shadowtwin) said...

I didn't check in time to comment on the setup to that hand, but I agree with your assesment of it on the turn. You were most definitely behind. When the flop came down, I was thinking that he must be in it with either a pair of face cards and his raise was just checking to see if you had an ace or he had tptk. When he pushes to the king on the turn, there is no way that you can be ahead, he wouldn't have made that move with jacks or queens with two overs on the board.

If he wasn't holding AK, (or possibly KK, the min-reraise could have been just to see if you had an ace) he executed that bluff perfectly. It sucks to have to lay them down when you have so much in the pot, but the only hand you are really ahead of there is A5 (of his likely holdings), and it isn't worth your tournament life to find out if he is dumb enough to have played the a5 that way on that board.

11:45 PM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

I agree 100% Donnie, the only possibility I thought was A5, but once he pushed on the turn when the King fell (thus making AK a winner over any other two pairs), there's no way he can be so sure his A5 is best as to put his big stack on the line early on in the FTOPS Main Event.

And while I hear ya on the possible raise with KK, so you really think he would min-reraise with KK on that flop? I know plenty of people who would minraise with KK when an Ace flops just to make sure you've actually got the Ace. But, when one guy leads out with a potbet on that flop, and another guy already raises it ahead if you, isn't it pretty clear already that at least one of them has the Ace? I just don't see him min-reraising there with just KK in his hand. Although interestingly even if he did have KK, he's still ahead of me on the turn when the third King falls.

I just don't think there was any chance that I was behind at that point in the hand. The King on the turn effing killed me.

And yes it blows ass to give it up with all those chips already in the pot. But doesn't it blow even more ass to call off the rest of my chips when I know I am behind there?

Thanks for the comment. Missed you at the Hoy last night.

11:56 PM  
Blogger lucko said...

I think you are putting yourself in your opponent’s position, which you weren't. Not everyone plays the same obv. There were many donks that satellited in that would easily overplay AQ, AJ or hell even A2 there. AA was not a reasonable holding given the action. AK wasn’t as likely as well since most people reraise with that as well. It was possible though. TT and 55 were both very likely, but 55 is only made 3 ways and TT 1 way. So barring an oddly played AK, you were only losing to 4 possible holdings. I would think A5 and AT were just as likely as 55 or TT and they are made a combined 10 ways. Adding in the possibility of this being a donk with a bare ace, I stand by what I said, there is NO way I am folding there. You are ahead or tied more times than you are beat and you are getting over 3-1 on a call. More donkaments are won by questionable calls than great laydowns. If I am wrong so be it, I have busted out of tournaments making much more questionable calls that this.

Also, the fact that you say you are completely positive you were beat is just silly to me, sorry. I know you want to feel good about the laydown and it might have been an awesome one, but saying you are completely sure there is just not being objective. There was a strong possibility you were beat, but to say you were completely positive is just unbelievable to me. How else is he going to play A5 or AT there?

12:09 AM  
Blogger bayne_s said...


1) Think you made a good laydown. With buyin what it was, he's not afraid of you holding AK but if you are holding AQ, AJ he doesn't want to give you a free card for the gutshot. Worst hand he held was AK

2) Believe it may have been my 1st Final Table at MATH but was 94% to final table last week.

Thanks for hosting.

12:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not sure if you've played it or if it fits in your time frame but FT runs a nightly $35K which is usually at least $50K for $150+$13 at 20:00pm. Tough field nice purse and there are satellites.

I go broke or double with top 2 in that spot.

12:32 AM  
Blogger smokkee said...

once you put that many chips in there, i think you gotta call.

fun tourney last night. Bayne just kept hitting flops on me heads up.

btw, AJo is *gold*.

1:17 AM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Fair point, Lucko. I don't really mean I am 100% sure I was beat. But I do mean I am as close to that as I ever get in this kind of a tournament.

I've already covered why I don't think AQ or AJ is in any way likely, especially once he pushes allin on the turn. And I don't know what to say about the A5 hand -- I just don't see how he possibly pushes on me on that turn card.

Short answer, I agree with you that there is a "good possibility" that I was beat there. I don't mean to say I am actually *sure* I was beat.

And btw, you asked how he's going to play A5 or AT differently on that hand. I'd say he doesn't min-reraise the flop, and he doesn't push on the turn either once the King falls. He'd have to be a real donk to make this play with A5, and even AT once the King hits the turn. Just look at how I played my own AT to see how I think he would have played it.

Nice comment, good clarification on my positivity of being beat.

1:36 AM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

And Don, I have seen that 8pm ET 35k tournament, and been tempted to play it from time to time. The issue is, I won't buy in to that badboy regularly (not at that $150 buyin level), and the satellites for that thing start I believe before I'm usually on the computer in the evenings. I would basically need to be on the pc by 6:15pm ET I think to get in on the last satellite for that nightly tournament, and I could count the number of times I've been logged in that early on -- well -- zero hands, since I never have been. I'd love to play it otherwise though -- anything like that big buyin to keep the uberdonks from playing would be welcomed by me, no matter if others think it's worse for me or not to have the uberdonks not in there.

1:52 AM  
Blogger lucko said...

All the minraising (which you love and I hate) makes the hand very hard to interpret for me. I am never in a hand like this, so its hard to say for sure what I would do. If I am him and I have AT, I guess you would think I was a real donk, because I am getting it in there every time. If by chance you hit the King, I would pay you off. The King wouldn't change my line for the turn at all. A5, I am not even in the hand, so that really wouldn't come into play for me.

2:03 AM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Yeah I don't know Lucko, maybe you're right. At the time I was "positive" he either had 55 or AK, so I didn't mind the fold. All your talk makes me wish I had called him just to find out the fact and report it here. If only I had known that I was going to lose with TT to AK 30 minutes later, and then I clearly would have just called it here.

What percentage chance would you say I was behind or ahead? Do you think it's close to 50%? To me it seemed (and seems) more like 95% that I was behind. It's just hard when I put the guy on AK on the flop, and then the King hit the turn. I still had enough chips to fold there and play some poker (barely), and I figured why call off the rest of my stack when the guy just hit the very card that I had him on all along.

I did not anticipate many people saying I had to call here. Yet again more that I have to learn about this game I guess.

2:08 AM  
Blogger I Like Cake said...

Now I'm positive he had AT. Isn't is great that we'll never know?

2:19 AM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Fishy, I already know he had AK or 55. So I'm not the least bit annoyed that I didn't get to see it. And that's the truth.

No way he pushes there with AT with the Ace and the King on the board, and me having raised on the flop as if I had AK. Not with a big stack early in the FTOPS Main Event. Probably he wouldn't even have called preflop after a raiser and a caller if he held AT, if that makes you feel even more confident.

AK, 55, or less likely TT. Had to be one of those three.

3:16 AM  
Blogger Littleacornman said...

Have you sharkscoped the villian to see if he is a solid player? I'd probably be sharkying him during that hand.

In the end I put him on AQ/AK/AJ or even Ace rag.Did he min raise you quickly? If so I suspect he liked his hand preflop but wanted to see a flop and get busy only if he hit.( it's early and he's out of position)

He hit the flop,liked it a lot and was probably going to make a decent bet ,but was worried by your min raise of utg's bet and utg's subsequent fold.This got him worried and left him with no idea where he was really so he made the min-raise more out of panic than anything else.

If he hit his K on the turn then his all in is obvious but he may have read your smooth call of his min raise as weakness and thought he could push you off with his all in.

I would have been all in on the flop rather than min raise and depending on my read/sharkscope I would probably have made the call of his all in.

Hope that made some sense!

4:06 AM  
Blogger lucko said...

I don't look at folding and being on the short stack as a good thing. The majority of short stacks don't do anything in tournaments. I am more of a "go big or go home" player in spots like this. You are going to have to win two flips to get to were a good call here would get you. That isn’t going to happen enough for a fold to be right.

We have very different mindsets in big tournaments. In most big tournaments, especially the on line variety, I really don't try to make big lay downs. I don’t mind making some bad calls. Getting the big stack is worth some gambles. Most tournaments I play, I am busting out anyway. I might as well bust out going for the big stack.

Here, getting about 3-1 on your money, I am not going to overvalue my reads and fold. I think you are good over 25% and that is all I would need to put my money in the middle.

And knowing what he actually had, shouldn't really change the analysis at all.

4:37 AM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Acornman, I will go ahead for interest's sake and check the guy out tonight on Sharkscope. I don't remember his full tilt handle right now but I definitely have the screenshottage at home so I'll check that out and post it here, probably in the comments rather than in its own post, sometime tonight or on Wednesday morning.

I'm curious though as to what you would do with the sharkscope information. Is your thinking that if he's a solid player, you would lay it down on the assumption that he has the goods? But if that he's a confirmed donk, then I should push here and take him down? Interesting idea, and one that I never think of at the table except in extreme circumstances.

4:44 AM  
Blogger Littleacornman said...

I can't promise I wouldn't have an "awfuckit" moment but if Sharky said he was a solid winner I think I may ( only may) have been able to lay it down after his all in.

If he was fishy I'd be more likely to give more weight to him playing Ace rag/AQ/AJ and I would probably make the call.

Sharkscope would not usually decide a hand for me but in marginal situations I find it helps.

5:07 AM  
Blogger Patch said...

Gee, Hoy, I had no idea I got so far under your skin. I'm also shocked that an all-in with A7s (not A8o) from a M=4 stack would shock you. On that table with an M under 5 I'm pushing with any ace. A suited one is a big bonus.

As for the "suckouts" of a couple weeks ago, well, that's another conversation.

6:29 AM  
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Patch, maybe I didn't explain well enough in my post. I was not the least bit shocked that you would push with A7 or A8 in that spot. The only shock was that I wasn't behind like I surely figured I was. Apologies if that was not clear from my post.

7:03 AM  
Blogger Chad C said...

I am done with on-line poker. I cashed out of poker stars completely and took everything out of Full Tilt except for $1K. I am going to play that out and that's it..... I am not getting caught with my pants down again like I did with neteller!

7:48 AM  
Blogger TraumaPoker said...

Your O8 comments are out of line to the point it really looks like you have no idea what you are doing. I am not trying to openly bash you so far warning I put up a post with some number pertaining to this specific O8 hand you talked about along with some solid Ribbo advice on playing A2xx.

12:54 AM  

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