Wow. It seems a regular old night at the 1-2 nlh ring tables on full tilt has now led to a
two-day (and counting) tilt-bender from another blogger. How much longer will it last? I guess we'll have to wait and see. Ima just buy some popcorn while I sit back and enjoy the show.
A fellow blogger commented to me last night in the girly chat how Tuesday was a whole day full of disputes in the poker blogiverse. I asked this person what they were talking about, and they referred to the silliness on my blog (I didn't realize I was having a fight with anyone, actually, although it seems
somebody got pretty tilted, directing the anger mostly at me for some strange reason). This guy then referred to the
Waffles -
Smokkee thing, which I also didn't see as a big deal. I mean, so Waffles thinks Smokkee's been playing a bit tight recently. Smokkee semi-agrees with that sentiment in his blog, and frankly I would go so far as to say that I have often had a similar reaction when I've been running as bad as Smokkee has lately with his big hands. Then this person also mentioned the Waffles -
Chad thing, which was a little bit pissy but still to me nothing worth getting your panties into a twist about. I mean basically, Chad I guess had been typing in "King King King" into the chat when Waffles got allin with 32 players left in the inaugural 50-50 tournament two nights ago on full tilt, when Waffles had an A2 and his opponent had K7 or something like that. The King hit on the river and Waffles was eliminated, and then he had complained in his blog about Chad rooting against him. Now while I'm not saying I would have enjoyed the taunt-chatting or whatever it was in that spot either, in general as far as I'm concerned I'm a firm believer that anybody can say whatever they want in the chat, and it would never bother me. As much as I've tilted only about a million times from poker, in all cases it's been from things that have happened to me with the cards, and/or the incredible luck I've seen go against me after thousands and thousands of hours of online play. But nobody has ever tilted me from the online poker chat in as long as I have played the game, or as long as I ever will play the game. Nobody. Period. If somebody roots against me, so be it. The Waffles we all know and love should not be complaining about that in his blog. He had a great run and played very well in a new tournament, a lot of guys we know were there to see it, and that's that. I don't care if someone was typing "die die die" about me in a tournament I was playing in, it shouldn't and doesn't really matter in my view. I wouldn't complain -- I've had people root against me at the poker tables about 10,000 times since becoming a blogger, and I've managed to gather a ton of haters out there, and I've never complained about it on my blog or even cared about it really. So to me, none of these things from Tuesday were actually big deals, although I will admit it made for some interesting reading throughout the day.
Anyways, I'm still trying to figure out how does someone get so tilted and angry at me from what happened at the cash tables the other night? In fact, as I reviewed all the hand histories and all the screenshots and all the chat, I really don't even know why I became such a focus of scorn for this poor guy. I think it was that hand where I moved allin over the top for 400-some dollars into a $30-something pot that really set the guy off. Not sure why that has to engender so much anger. So what if I knew exactly what my opponent had on that hand and made a calculated move to try to school someone who doesn't know not to overplay longshot hands against hands that are clearly well ahead. Is that really enough to set someone off on a two day tilt-rage? Wow. I guess some people are even more unstable than me out there. All I know is, I couldn't be happier if an opponent started moving allin for huge sums of money in massive cash game overbets when I've been betting and raising. I imagine I would stack that person even faster than I stacked this other blogger the other night. I mean, so you lost a significant portion of your full tilt bankroll at that game. Big deal. How many other times have you busted yourself by playing 73s and 52o and hands like that? Tens? Hundreds? Something tells me the guy will come up with some more money soon and will be back at the tables playing his particular brand of "poker" before we know it. Which I look forward to btw. Immensely.
Anyways ignoring all the silliness and anger in the comments and from the tiltmonkey's blog, which I think I will let speak for itself and leave at that,
Jordan made some interesting comments about collusion and just generally about people chatting at the poker table that I found interesting and thought I would write about today.
First off, here is the hand history of the hand where this tilty blogger busted for the last time the other night:
Full Tilt Poker Game #2707052363: Table Hidden Quail - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:16:37 ET - 2007/06/19
Seat 1: bayne_s ($239.40)
Seat 2: RecessRampage ($190.60)
Seat 3: GimmeFiction ($261.25)
Seat 4: hoyazo ($433.25)
Seat 5: Victim ($137.45)
Seat 6: steamingdonkey1 ($234.60)
Seat 7: MAROMB78 ($236.35), is sitting out
Seat 8: TwistedDonkey ($229.05)
Seat 9: yobabysdaddy ($168.90)
GimmeFiction posts the small blind of $1
hoyazo posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Victim [Qh Qd]
Victim: oh in some tournament?
Victim has 15 seconds left to act
Victim raises to $7
steamingdonkey1 folds
RecessRampage: no in cash game
TwistedDonkey folds
yobabysdaddy calls $7
bayne_s folds
Victim: oh... was that $25 NL?
RecessRampage raises to $31
GimmeFiction folds
hoyazo has 15 seconds left to act
hoyazo folds
RecessRampage: dude, I don't have details
Victim has 15 seconds left to act
Victim has requested TIME
hoyazo: foldy foldy
hoyazo: ATo no good hereRecessRampage: lol
Victim raises to $137.45, and is all in
yobabysdaddy folds
RecessRampage: lmao
RecessRampage calls $106.45
Victim shows [Qh Qd]
RecessRampage shows [Ac Ad]
*** FLOP *** [2h 4c 5h]
*** TURN *** [2h 4c 5h] [Jc]
*** RIVER *** [2h 4c 5h Jc] [Kc]
Victim shows a pair of Queens
RecessRampage shows a pair of Aces
RecessRampage wins the pot ($281.90) with a pair of Aces
MiamiDon (Observer): oops
Victim is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $284.90 | Rake $3
Board: [2h 4c 5h Jc Kc]
Seat 1: bayne_s didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: RecessRampage (button) showed [Ac Ad] and won ($281.90) with a pair of Aces
Seat 3: GimmeFiction (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: hoyazo (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: Victim showed [Qh Qd] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 6: steamingdonkey1 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: MAROMB78 is sitting out
Seat 8: TwistedDonkey didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: yobabysdaddy folded before the Flop
***
On several occasions in blog comments Jordan refers to inappropriate chat that occurred in this hand, and to inappropriately "goading" other players to make certain plays. I guess I just don't see what is wrong in this hand. You can see the chat above. Did anyone say anything in appropriate there? I'd be interested to know what it was if anyone out there thinks someone said something that was "wrong" in some way from a poker perspective. I mean,
Alan and Victim had just been discussing a previous hand where Victim had pushed allin with ATo, so when Victim raised and then Alan reraised, I typed in my usual "foldy foldy, ATo no good here." If you think that is somehow inappropriate chat at a blogger cash table, then I'm not sure what to think. I don't see what's inappropriate there. I haven't seen Jordan play a whole lot of blogger cash recently, and maybe that's part of the problem here, because this kind of thing goes on all the time at these tables, and it's just fine IMO. In most cases it's the whole reason we're playing at these tables to begin with. It's fun and we're here to chat it up and have a good time.
Am I somehow to blame for Victim's stacking there with the QQ? Am I somehow to blame, as Victim claims on his "blog", for Victim's allin reraise with the QQ there, just because I typed in "foldy foldy, ATo no good here" in the table chat? You can't really believe that, can you anyone out there? Anyone who thinks that was inappropriate, I would love to understand why.
Jordan also made the general comment here yesterday that
"Even in friendly blogger games, its extremely wrong to tell someone how to act, even if you are doing it in a kidding way."I don't think I agree with this statement, at least not in its generality, and I would love to know if you out there feel differently. I mean, for starters, I 100% agree in many specific instances it is wrong to comment. For example, I'm playing at a random non-blogger live cash table in some casino, and I limp from utg, some guy raises from MP, and then I reraise him preflop when the action gets back to me for all the rest of my chips on a massive overraise. The guy is clearly thinking of calling, and then some guy at the table who has played a lot of hands with me but doesn't know the other guy yells out "Hey donkey, Hoy limped utg and then reraised over the top allin, he clearly has pocket Aces so GET OUT!". The guy thinks and then folds his hand, flipping up pocket Queens to show what he's folding. That would piss me off, and it would be completely inappropriate in my view. So in that sense I think Jordan is clearly correct, and in fact I really can't see entertaining any argument that says otherwise. That's not proper poker conduct IMO, period.
However, Jordan's statement completely ignores the situation of a player who is currently involved in a hand trying to influence another player currently involved in the hand to make a certain play, an omission which I'm not sure was intentional or not. So, for example, if I have the nuts, is it "wrong" of me somehow to pause for 3 minutes before I smooth call an opponent's bet on the flop, just to try to convince him to bet or call more chips off to me later in the hand due to my weak act when I am in fact stronger than strong? To me, that's just poker. Great poker, if I don't say so myself. Similarly, is it wrong of me to type "Oh well I'll just take a chance" into the chat before I reraise allin preflop in an online poker game, when I know in fact that I am holding pocket Aces and will be dominatingly ahead of any hand my opponent might call with? Is that somehow inappropriate activity at the poker table in any of your minds? Because if you say it is, then #1 every single blogger I know has been guilty of this from time to time, and #2, you're wrong. Deception, trickery, and goading an opponent into calling are
all part of poker, and to suggest that telling someone else at the table how to act is "extremely wrong" is I think too flip at best, and probably just a downright inaccurate statement overall. Do you people out there disagree with me on this?
I also think Jordan's statement is too extreme in that I think the line tends to get blurred when you're playing with guys you know, and/or sitting in a friendly game. And I
certainly think the last part of Jordan's statement, "even if you are doing it in a kidding way", is a fuzzy line at best.
For example, I sat at the mgm poker room at a 1-2 table for more than 20 hours over two days last weekend in Las Vegas, and during most of that time we probably had an average of 7 or 8 bloggers around a 10-person table, making for a lot of fun times across the board, but also a lot of table chatter amongst the group as some of us knew each other, and even among the strangers since we were playing in a very friendly, jokey kind of a game. There were numerous hands where I made a big preflop raise, it folded around to a guy who had limped across the table, and he had a conversation with another blogger sitting next to him about his decision before folding his hand. So what? That didn't bother me in the least. Some of those times I had a monster and really wanted him to call. Others of those times I was bluffing out my ass and really wanted him to fold. The other blogger dude didn't know what I had in my hand any more than the stranger guy did. It didn't bother me, and I don't think it violated some written or unwritten rule of poker in that context. It was a friendly game, there was tons of table chatter going on and I not only thought that was ok, but I enjoyed the chatter. In fact, as I've written about previously, that kind of chat, analysis and comaraderie made the weekend as far as I'm concerned.
Similarly, there were times at that mgm cash table where some blogger at the other end of the table raised big preflop after two limpers from our end, where I know we then proceeded to have some discussion at our end of the table about what the other guy likely had, including with two or more players at our end who were still involved in the hand. Since none of us really knew what the other guy had, and it was openly a friendly, chatty game to all the players involved, this didn't bother anyone at the table and again, I say that sort of stuff is a lot of what made playing with my friends so much fun.
And as far as telling players what to do at the table "in a kidding way", I just don't think anyone is going to convince me that it's wrong of me to say something like "Uh oh, better fold that Hammer!" when a guy gets reraised preflop at a blogger cash table. It's not inappropriate to say that. It's a joke, it's funny and it's enjoyed by everyone at the table. So what if the other guy has pocket Aces and was hoping for a call. I agree that it's a fine line, but IMO it should be just fine for someone to jokingly suggest that another player fold a hand to a raise, in particular at a friendly, jokey table full of friendly, jokey guys.
Lastly, I should also note that in the tiltmonkey's blog I see the following quote in the comments:
"I do remember your consoling chat after the hand, although it did take the back seat having been in the midst of all the digs directed towards me; all of which I think were entirely uncalled for, hence my complaints."
I will say this once, and a lot of other bloggers were there who can confirm or deny my impression, but the "digs" at this table were nonexistent at first, until the tiltmonkey blogger
himself took it upon himself to refer to me as an "idiot tournament player" in the chat, after which point a number of the players at the table and on the rail escalated things (escalation which I was barely even a participant in, btw). Now, I can talk smack with the best of 'em, and I surely didn't mind in the slightest, tiniest little bit that comment directed at me. I enjoyed it, because it showed the extreme frustration and tilt that my move in that hand had created in the tilty blogger. So the comment calling me an idiot didn't faze me in the least, and I didn't mention it, complain about it, or even remember it until I saw it listed in a hand history on the tiltmonkey's blog this morning. But how does a guy complain in his blog about "digs directed at him", all of which being "entirely uncalled for", after he makes that statement above to another guy at the table and that statement is what started the "digs" to begin with? That my friends is what we call L-A-M-E.
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, right? Nobody asked this tilter to start calling people names at the table, and in the end he showed how little he can take it in despite being very willing to dish it out first. Nobody cared about the names he started throwing around at the table either, don't get me wrong, but people shouldn't have to read him crying in his blog the next morning about uncalled for digs at him when he was the one calling people names in the first place and turning the chat from regular, fun and funny blogger chat into tilting rude commentary about other people's games.
Now go and pay
this guy the money you owe him please. Hasn't several months been enough time by now?
See you tonight in the
Mookie (10pm ET on full tilt, password as always is "vegas1"), and don't forget to re-read
this post from my blog the other day before you head into tonight's latest
BBT tournament. And for tonight's special bounty, anyone who manages to bust current BBT crusher
Bayne within the first five players out today will receive a $11 transfer from me via full tilt to buy you in to next week's Mookie tournament.
Labels: Blogger Cash, Blogger Tilt, Table Talk, Tilt